National Smart Ticketing Advisory Board - Meeting Minutes - 14 January 2025
Attendees
Chair
- Dr Andrew Seedhouse: (AS)
Board Members:
- *Michael Nimmo: Subway Operator Representative (MN)
- Marilena Papadopoulou: Tram Operator Representative (HOST) (MP)
- Diane Burke: Ferry Operator Representative (DB)
- Hussein Patwa: Accessibility Representative (HP)
- *Margaret Roy: Local Transport Authority Representative (ATCO) (MR)
- Ranald Robertson: Regional Transport Partnership Representative (RTP) (RR)
- Mary Docherty: Transport Scotland Representative (MD)
- *Matt Smallwood: Smart Delivery Advisor (MS)
- *James Gleave: Transport Strategy Advisor (JG)
- Claire Dickie: Rail Operator Representative (CD)
- *Graeme Macfarlan: Bus Operator Representative (observer) (GM)
- *Mostafa Gulam: Technical Systems Advisor (MG)
Other attendees:
- *Rob Hughes (Innovatious) (RH)
- *Steve Ramsay (Innovatious) (SR)
- *Alison Pilling (Innovatious) (AP)
- Juliet Bell: Smart Programme Manager (Transport Scotland) (JB)
- Kat Quane (Transport Scotland, Sponsor) (KQ)
* = attending virtually
Apologies
- Bettina Sizeland: Director of Bus, Accessibility and Active Travel (Transport BS Scotland) (SRO)
- Kirsten Urquhart: Passenger Representative KU
Actions from the last meeting
250114-01 (open)
DB to host breakout session with ferry operators over engagement for the Innovatious Report
250114-02 (open
Bus rep to meet with operators regarding ticketing enhancements using the Tripper model
The Board agreed the previous minutes to be accurate. Minutes of the 5 November meeting to be published
Chair update
AS - Ministerial Update letter issued last November providing update on NSTAB progress on the Calendar anniversary of its inception. Response received on December 12th 2024 thanking the Board for the update and noting the plan for the Minister to attend a future Board Meeting.
AS – Competition and Market Authority (CMA) Consultation on public transport ticketing scheme block exemption was responded to by the Board. AS thanked members for their input. NSTAB keen to see the block exemption retained.
JG lead on a response to the consultation on Invest 2025. AS queried if there had yet been a response. JG confirms no response yet, KQ/GBP confirmed no response via the NSTAB mailbox or directly as sponsor. AS thanked JG for leading on this response and will await any feedback
AS – Project Coral - new letter with TS legal team, and KQ/AS to discuss after meeting. Hope to issue an amended version on the original. AS confirmed the Board are content to send a ‘positive’ engagement letter in whatever format lawyers advice. Have had further session from Coral. Invited to their own working group with signed up members. Preparing their procurement process.
NSTAB Bus Representative Appointment - Multiple applications received for Bus representative. Candidates interviewed previous week. Aim to make offer by end of this week.
Transport Scotland sponsor update
KQ – Scottish Government sponsor activity has focused on things not applicable to NSTAB, such as financial report standards and Scottish Government Estate rules. KQ confirmed with AS that he is receiving these emails as it means he’s on the right mailing lists.
KQ advised that as Meetings were set for the year the Board should consider when would be appropriate to invite the Cabinet Secretary given that the Ministers have set holidays (recess) when they are generally not available. KQ also advised it would be sensible to invite the Minister to a meeting where progress can be show cased, rather than a meeting with day to day routine content. AS added that TS CEO Alison Irvine also expressed an interest in attending, and that should also be considered. KQ asked the Board to consider and feedback to her potential dates given how busy the Ministers diary can be. Finally, KQ advised that she has updates on legislative reform, but will update at next meeting due to the focus of the Jan Meeting being the Innovatious report.
Consultancy update
Benchmarking Smart Ticketing in Scotland
Innovatious gave a presentation on the baselining report (Note – slides on Khub). Mixed response from operators to initial survey. Issued widely, including to over 130 bus operators and 5 ticketing schemes, Scotrail, trams, subway and ferry operators with good engagement from most. However, no response from any ferry operator. DB to look into separate breakout session with ferry operators. AS offered to assist.
Key Themes:
Cash payments and legacy systems
Cash still accepted/used on bus routes with some still requiring exact change. Wide card and contactless payment acceptance predominately on bus. Innovatious advised that ITSO has had mixed results as a platform for commercial ticketing, where barcode and cEMV are becoming more prevalent, but works well underpinning Scotland’s concessionary schemes. Report also noted the need for efficiency in removing legacy systems
MD – noted in response to the points on ‘legacy’ systems that ITSO is the only interoperable solution we have right now, supporting in excess of 3 million concessionary cardholders. Need to be mindful of proportionality or impact on the scheme if the suggestion is to move away from ITSO. JB also noted that ITSO is seen as a secure platform in terms of fraud. There was a short discussion on security in other schemes, with Innovatious noting that cEMV has comparable security.
Desire for Account Based Ticketing
There was a discussion on the move to Account Based Ticketing (ABT) which the report’s case studies showed a broad support and desire for. Innovatious noted that there are good options for when people move to ABT. cEMV was noted as being popular and growing, however there are different approaches to implementation. cEMV is popular and makes sense for NSTAB to support early expansion of cEMV.
Move to greater barcode ticketing
The Board were in agreement that Barcode works well for pre-paid tickets in rail and bus as highlighted in the report. Barcode ticketing could be used to drive interoperable and inter-mode travel. NSTAB may wish to consider a more formalised approach to accessibility.
Third Party Retail
The report noted the lack of third party retail, and also confirmed a mixed response from operators on whether this should be introduced. This was discussed at length.
Accessibility and inclusivity
The report recognised challenges some people can face to use or access technology. HP asked how this was benchmarked, with confirmation that this was largely around Website Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG). The Board discussed and were in general agreement that accessibility goes beyond website accessibility, including issues such as ‘customer handover’ between modes, and there was general discussion on issues such as the availability of wheelchair accessible spaces and ramp access. HP noted an experience on rail where in order to facilitate his transfer between the sleeper lounge and the service at Inverness station, the lounge had to be closed. All agreed this was not ideal.
DB and RR discussed the need for operators to know unambiguously who has responsibility for the customer to provide a seamless experience and were keen to see this reflected in the output of the Board. Validation device accessibility, website and app accessibility were discussed.
Case Studies
Emerging UK themes were covered by sharing case studies from the UK, such as in transport for Cornwall PAYG, Solent (Hampshire) and Transport for the West Midlands. Significant amount of onboard bus ticketing including by cash payments. Scotland shows similar trends.
International examples were identified where new approaches were followed and lessons learned, such as Translink in Netherlands. The pros/cons of the Presto Canada scheme were looked at in depth. Myki in Melbourne was also reviewed in relation to its economic impact
Longer term recommendations
Engage with current national initiatives to inform longer term strategy, and understand the needs of customers. There was a call for Transport Scotland to “make the hard decisions” on what they would like to see, to clarify Transport Scotland’s strategic role in the market, and to be inclusive and accessible from the start/use human centred design.
AS asked that feedback on the draft be given no later than 7 Feb 2025
Quick Wins Progress
Written update by KU (absent) not yet received.
Sectoral Update
GM – To note substantial investment in onboard ticketing machines and ticketing system. GM has asked divisional team for specs and other opportunities to improve cost efficiencies in this area.
MG – Keen to attend Transport Global Ticketing and encouraged attendance. Lots of technologies will be demonstrated giving feedback and lessons learned.
JG – shared a link to a consultation on the DfT Integrated National Transport Strategy and noted that the questions were fairly broad brush.
MR – two main areas affecting local authority transport, are funding for transport partnerships and a concessionary reimbursement review.
MN – Main project for SPT is implementing contactless at gates. Final project completion towards end of 2025.
CD – Mainly Digital Kiosk Procurement
RR – Noted that there is a current Scotland national performance audit which has taken up a lot of RTP time.
MD – Working towards an MVP for digital travel data services product, which has required working closely with suppliers. JB’s team working on a range of projects. To note, Transport Scotland attended a workshop with Deloitte for Transport Scotland’s future, which was useful.
Next steps & AOB
AS - 11th March 2025. I’ll take on action work with Mostafa and others to structure discussion to prepare us for next stage of our work. Coming up with scale-based solution.
Offer to host from DB, at Gourock
Proposed date for next meeting: 11 March 2025 , Gourock